When a company is submitting their first Confirmation Statement will Companies House expect to see the full history of PSC investigation on the Confirmation Statement or will they only require the current information that the company holds about their PSC status?
For example, if a company had been taking reasonable steps to identify their PSC information and by the time of their Confirmation Statement they had identified their PSCs would the company need to show the following on their Confirmation Statement:
Statement Notification (Company Level) for “STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED”
Statement Withdrawal (Company Level) for “STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED”
Statement Notification (PSC Level) for “PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED”
Statement Withdrawal (PSC Level) for “PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED”
PSC Notification for Joe Bloggs
Or would they only need to show
PSC Notification for Joe Bloggs
Also, would Companies House expect the PSC Notification for Joe Bloggs to be dated from 6 April 2016?
Finally, if a company had not confirmed all of their PSC information and were still investigating by the time that they were submitting their Confirmation Statement, would Companies House expect to see just a Company Level Statement Notification for “STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED” or would Companies House expect to see the PSC Level Statement Notifications for the investigation ie PSC Level notifications for “PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED”
Hope this makes sense.
You “should” give the details of the PSC register from 6th April, so any notification etc from that point in time, you are not able to do this on a single confirmation statement.
From your example
- Statement Notification (Company Level) for “STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED”
- Statement Withdrawal (Company Level) for “STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED”
- Statement Notification (PSC Level) for “PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED”
- Statement Withdrawal (PSC Level) for “PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED”
- PSC Notification for Joe Bloggs
You wouldnt be able to file all these on 1 confirmation statement as the law would not permit it, you can only have 1 company level statement on at any one time. On your first confirmation statement you could give company level statement dated say 6th April, then you would need to end date that statement on the next confirmation statement and give PSC level statement. Then the next confirmation statement withdraw the PSC level statement and give the details for Joe Bloggs.
Appreciating this is complicated and time consuming for the customer but is what you are “supposed” to do.
If however Joe Bloggs was the PSC from the 6th April, there would be no need to give details of what happened prior to that date as the law only requires the information to be kept on the PSC register from that point in time.
Your last point, really depends on whether a company has any idea on who their PSC are. The two company level statements are really for companies who genuinely don’t have a PSC or just haven’t bothered looking yet, there will be compliance action against these companies who continue to fail to give a PSC unless there is a genuine reason. Therefore if a company has an idea and is looking to confirm their details then they should use the PSC level statement.
Hope that helps, sorry its all very complicated.
Thanks, that clears a few things up.
Will there be validation on the Companies House side which would prevent a company from submitting the same PSC Notification twice?
For example, if in my first Confirmation Statement I send through a PSC Notification for Joe Bloggs with DOB 1 July 1978 and in my second Confirmation Statement I send through the same PSC Notification for Joe Bloggs with DOB 1 July 1978, would the Confirmation Statement be rejected because I’ve tried to assign a duplicate PSC or would there now be two Joe Bloggs registered at Companies House?
It will work same as officers now in that we wouldnt reject your confirmation statement, the system recognises you have filed an identical notification and will not update the register with an identical person but will accept the confirmation statement and log an inconsistency. Hope that helps
Having just read this it would seem that in your example a company would have to submit three confirmation statements, rather than one, to provide Companies House with the correct information at the confirmation date. Is this correct as surely one confirmation statement can have the company level statement notification and its withdrawal, especially as a company submitting an annual return at a certain date would expect to be able to provide all the data since the last confirmation statement at that time, as otherwise the data at the date of the confirmation statement will not be correct?
If three confirmation statements are required does this mean that a company can submit three confirmation statements on the same date so that the data on submission of the third is correct. However, I guess that the second confirmation statement should only be submitted once the first has been accepted, etc given that the Companies House system will not always process statements in the same order?
The confirmation statement doesnt deal with interim changes so you would need to file multiple statements, you only pay once per year. There are business rules to stop certain combinations of PSC and company level statements, if you give 1 company level statement you cannot submit any other PSC notifications or statements.
You can file multiple confirmation statements with the same confirmation date but I wouldnt advise you to submit them on the same day as we cannot guarantee the order they are processed and there is the risk of rejection. Hope that helps
Thank you for your reply.
Just for clarification can you please confirm or otherwise if the confirmation statements required and content are correct for the following:
- Where a company has on 6 April 2016 not completed the steps to identify if there are any, then identified that a PSC exists but not identified them, then identifies the person but the person has not confirmed the details, then contacts the person with a Section 790D which is not responded to in the time, then because of continued non-response issued a restriction notice and then finally the PSC confirms the details and the company removes the restriction notice all in the same confirmation statement period would the following be the correct inclusions on confirmation statements:
- confirmation statement 1 STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED notification
- confirmation statement 2 STEPS_TO_FIND_PSC_NOT_YET_COMPLETED withdrawal and PSC_EXISTS_BUT_NOT_IDENTIFIED notification
- confirmation statement 3 PSC_EXISTS_BUT_NOT_IDENTIFIED withdrawn, PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED notification, PSC_CONTACTED_BUT_NO_RESPONSE notification and RESTRICTIONS_NOTICE_ISSUED_TO_PSC notification
- confirmation statement 4 PSC_DETAILS_NOT_CONFIRMED withdrawn, PSC_CONTACTED_BUT_NO_RESPONSE withdrawn, RESTRICTIONS_NOTICE_ISSUED_TO_PSC withdrawn with appropriate RestrictionNoticeWithdrawalReasonType and PSC notification
- Where a company identifies a PSC who confirms the details on the same date and then some PSC details (eg country of residence and residential address) are changed but this changed is not initially confirmed by the PSC and then later in that confirmation statement period the PSC confirmed the changes that the following confirmation statements are required:
- confirmation statement 1 - PSC notification, with originally confirmed details
- confirmation statement 2 - PSC linked statement with PSC_HAS_FAILED_TO_CONFIRM_CHANGED_DETAILS notification
- confirmation statement 3 - PSC PSC linked statement PSC_HAS_FAILED_TO_CONFIRM_CHANGED_DETAILS withdrawal and PSC change details
- Where a company identifies a PSC who confirms the details on the same date and then the PSC informs company that certain PSC details (eg country of residence and residential address) are changed in the same confirmation statement period that the following confirmation statements are required:
- confirmation statement 1 - PSC notification, with originally confirmed details
- confirmation statement 2 - PSC change details
Number 2 & 3 you are spot on. The first one however yes technically we wouldnt stop you filing that combination, because the statements are not linked to PSCs we dont know whether you are filing those 3 statements for 1 PSC or 3 different PSCs. We would advise you to send them in separately, so as soon as one doesnt apply you withdraw it and submit the next statement which applies. This will make it clearer for customers to follow through each PSC what has happened, by looking at the dates on each statement, unfortunately as they are not linked thats the only way to work it out.
Hope that answers your queries - its very complicated
Thank you for the reply
Having discussed this with my colleagues we are surprised that where there have been a number of changes in relation to PSCs that this means that a number of confirmation statements need to be submitted covering that confirmation statement period.
Surely all the PSC changes should be included in one confirmation statement as this will give the full history to Companies House as required?
By forcing companies to submit several statements with the different PSC changes included this is adding to the administrative burden of companies rather than removing or keeping such a burden to a minimum, which was part of the purpose of the move to the confirmation statement required by the SBEE?
In addition requiring multiple confirmation statements to be submitted for the year in question will mean that the earlier confirmation statements will not be correct at the confirmation statement date, as they will only have the earliest PSC details included. It will only be the last confirmation statement at the confirmation date that has the correct end PSC position.
Can you please confirm that it is true that Companies House will be requiring multiple confirmation statements with the same confirmation date to be submitted where certain PSC changes have taken place in the confirmation year covered by the confirmation statement rather than just one confirmation statement?
Given that, we understand that it is the case that separate confirmation statements will be needed for electronic submissions where certain PSC changes have been made, can you please confirm the situations where a PSC change in a confirmation statement period means that a separate confirmation statement is required given your earlier comment that in one scenario I provided that these could be submitted on one confirmation statement.
@cchrist n relation to the above, based on my interpretation of the topic content to help in your response, and associated matters can you please confirm or otherwise the following:
- the below is a correct summary of when Companies House requires a separate confirmation statement to be submitted in relation to PSCs:
i. a companywide statement and one or more PSC statement or PSC notification applied in the same confirmation period;
ii. a PSC notification and a confirmed change notification to that PSC applied in the same confirmation period;
iii. a PSC notification and an unconfirmed change notification to that PSC applied in the same confirmation period;
iv. an unconfirmed change notification to a PSC, which was subsequently confirmed applied in the same confirmation period;
v. more than one change applied to a PSC in the same confirmation period
vi a PSC notification and a PSC withdrawal for that PSC applied in the same confirmation period
vii a PSC confirmed change notification and a PSC withdrawal for that same PSC applied in the same confirmation period
viii a PSC unconfirmed change notification and a PSC withdrawal for the same PSC applied in the same confirmation period
- the ‘ReviewDate’ for each submission that needs to be submitted can be the same date so that the subsequent submissions are not rejected as duplicate submissions.
- any combination of PSC Statement Notifications, PSC Statement Withdrawals and PSC Notifications can be submitted on one confirmation statement.
- any combination of PSC Statement Notifications, PSC Statement Withdrawals and PSC Withdrawals can be submitted on one confirmation statement.
- any combination of PSC Statement Notifications, PSC Statement Withdrawals and PSC Changes, where none of the PSC Changes relate to the same PSC can be submitted on one confirmation statement.
- any combination of PSC Statement Notifications, PSC Statement Withdrawals, PSC Notifications and PSC Withdrawals, PSC changes where none of the PSC notifications, withdrawals and changes relate to the same person can be submitted on one confirmation statement.
- one Company statement withdrawal and any of 3, 4, 5 or 6 above.
ps having just had a look at the business rules for the confirmation statement and the combination of PSC data given the above and earlier responses do not agree as the business rules imply that it is only PSC Statement notification with company statement that cannot be included in the same confirmation statement as a PSC statement notification with PSC notification, a PSC statement notification with PSC linked notification or a PSC notification, or multiple PSC statement notifications each with company statement.
hi. I am sorry you have had to wait so long I am continuing to chase our policy department to get your questions answered as we have had similar questions from other developers. Hopefully get an answer for you tomorrow - apologies again
@chirst sorry to chase but as our developers are keen to understand Companies House’s requirements for this do you have a response yet or an idea when a response will be available?
I am really sorry we are working through all the scenarios today to make sure we give accurate information to everyone
@chirst do you have an update on when this will be available?
@chirst @snicholas Sorry to chase but is there a timescale for when this information will be available?
@philip As you would expect we have received a number of queries similar to yours. Our policy area is working on a general response which I hope will cover your question and those of other developers. Apologies for the delay.
I just want to make sure that the general response has not been already posted elsewhere, right?
I’m waiting for this answer as well. And depending on the course of action to be decided, the impact on our code will be big. Given that our due date for PSCs is the 30th of this month, it would be nice to have the answer at least one week before that.
@paulom No it hasn’t. I have chased.
I see that some guidance has been issued on this under thread http://xmlforum.aws.chdev.org/t/confirmation-statement-guidance/121.
I note that this states that Companies House’s electronic system cannot cope with the case where any of the statements start and cease in the same confirmation period. Does this mean that if a company has three PSCs and these have statements that come and go such that if one PSC has an existing statement at the start of the confirmation period and this is ceased but then a new statement (of the same type or different) arises against another PSC can these be included in the same confirmation statement submitted electronically?
In addition can an electronically submitted confirmation statement include four separate new PSC statement notifications?
One more issue can an electronically submitted confirmation statement include where a company has a company statement at the beginning of the confirmation period and this is then ended and replaced by the other company statement during the period. Eg for the confirmation period from 1 July 2016 to 30 June 2017 the company has since 6 April 2016 had the not completed its review company statement and then on 18 July 2016 this statement ceased and was replaced by the company statement that the company had no PSCs can this be submitted on one confirmation statement?